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Bird points and flint?

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jebster25	Bird points and flint?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 277 Apr 2 11 5:56 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I would like your opinion on the above two things. Are there such a things as bird points. I have heard yes and no. Is there such a thing as flint in the U.S. or is it all chert sometimes referred to as flint. If there is flint in the U.S. where is it found and what is it called? Thanks
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JustinL		#1	[-]
Posts: 1063 Apr 2 11 8:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ive heard that natives usually hunted birds with blunt tipped arrows. On average most arrow heads were small and lethal enough to kill deer and other medium to large game. I think people started calling these bird points because we thought they were too small to kill larger animals. But im sure somewhere bird points were made and used. (turkey hunting) Chert is a fine grained silica rich sedimentary rock, Found in sandstone and limestone formations and caused by the replacement of calcium carbonate with silica. What I understand is that flint is the name of chert found in chalk beds. . Ive also heard that black chert in England were once called flint. Either way flint is a form of chert. Im not sure of any flint in the U.S. I know here in New York we dont have flint. Interesting questions though.
Hummingbird Point	Bird points	#2	[-]
Posts: 261 Apr 2 11 1:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I believe enough bird points have been found associated with kill sites of big game (including bison) to establish that they were used on large animals. This does seem odd since modern bowhunters generally use 125 grain broad heads, and a 125 grain stone point would actually be quit a bit larger than most stone arrow points that were historically used. The simplest explanation probably has to do with arrow penetration. A big point that fails to penetrate to the vitals does less damage than a small point that pieces the heart or lungs. A study on broad head penetration found that maximum penetration comes from using an arrow which is 12-14 grains per pound of bow draw weight. Since native bows tended to be designs which are on the slow shooting side (when compared to modern highly recurved and compound bows), the lower end of that scale probably best applies. So if using a 45 lbs long bow, best penetration comes from an arrow weighing 540 grains. The shaft alone can take account for 450-500 grains (I use a 475 grain shoot shaft for the arrows I make for my 40 lbs recurve), so a small point is needed. Keith
Fergwell		#3	[-]
Posts: 115 Apr 2 11 2:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As stated, Bird Point is a misnomer. Many people still refer to any small point as a bird point even when they know the difference. In the modern US lithic world the dirtier the material is the more likely it will be called chert and the clearer/cleaner it is the more likely it will be referred to as flint. It's all basically Chert but Flint is the cleaner form, but it's still chert.
stoneknife		#4	[-]
Posts: 1397 Apr 2 11 5:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What everyone else said. Bird arrows were typically all wood and featured a swelled tip much like a suction cup on the end. If you think about it, modern bow hunters who hunt birds do not use a tiny tip, broad head or even a field tip. They use a mizzy or a suction cup like tip even today. I think "bird" points might have been used for turkey, but also deer and other game. The idea was penetration into vital organs. The Pawnee used a tiny tip for buffalo. It was all about vital organ shots. And to state the other as plainly as possible. Europeans call their black chert flint. We call our chert ...chert.
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Mike Turnz		#5	[-]
Posts: 410 Apr 3 11 11:54 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	georgetown texas flint, is the closest to true flint in the U.S. I think it formed in chalk.
philflintstone		#6	[-]
Posts: 703 Apr 3 11 5:14 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	White River Flint from South Dakota is also considered to be a 'true' flint. It's also found in chalk beds. Works and looks like Georgetown Black. Philip
wannabe	pishkin points	#7	[-]
Posts: 210 Apr 3 11 8:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Many of the points found at Montana buffalo jumps will fit two on a dime or nickle. The bigger ones were used on atlatl darts which were used to dispatch game at jumps longer than bows were.
philflintstone		#8	[-]
Posts: 703 Apr 4 11 9:58 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here in AZ most arrow points are tiny 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch long. Longer arrow points are narrow with needle tips. The main bow wood for desert areas is willow which is a fairly weak wood and many bows were made with a D curve to prevent overdraw. Typical bow weight for a willow bow is around 30 lbs. Reeds and a plant called arrowweed were prefered for arrowshafts. They make very lightweight shafts of about 200 grains. With such lightweight bows and arrowshafts, I think small or narrow points were necessary to provide adequate penetration. In mountainous areas where juniper was available for bow wood, arrowshaft weight and arrowhead size both increase. Philip
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Bird points and flint?

Bird points and flint?