wood broadhead??

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paleoarcher	wood broadhead??	Lead	[-]
Posts: 49 (05/03/09 2:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None do you think that we could make a hardwood broadhead maybe fire harden it? i know it wouldnt be as good as stone or bone or anything else but would it work for deer?
inuumarue		#1	[-]
Posts: 226 (05/03/09 4:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have seen and used apple wood knives before. I have also heard of bamboo knives and even swords, however if it would work as a broad head I do not know. First question is do you feel comfortable letting a deer be the test subject. Second, while it is possible to get a sharp and hard edge on certain woods, would it be able to survive a high speed impact if it hit a rib and when it did what would happen? In my opinion it is completely possible, however I would not use one for hunting. my two cents Adam
Lady Nauriel		#2	[-]
Posts: 237 (05/03/09 6:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Perhaps not a broadhead, but there are other shapes where wood would work as an arrowhead.
Metalking00		#3	[-]
Posts: 71 (05/03/09 7:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've seen bamboo broadheads before. My archaeology professor brought in a cool bow and some arrows that she knew I'd like. All of the arrows had bamboo heads. They seemed like they'd do a great job. Life has meaning only in the struggle Triumph or defeat is in the hands of the Gods So let us celebrate the struggle
Christopher P.primalfires		#4	[-]
Posts: 99 (05/03/09 8:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would think there are some good, stout hardwoods that would work in this application. Purpleheart and Myrtle come to mind... with a concave grind to the "blades", and a decently thick center (1/4 inch) I think it has some potential. tidewaterforge.com Back to School: My Blog
dbowser		#5	[-]
Posts: 214 (05/04/09 5:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If a person falls onto a stick, sticking upright in the ground, that person would substain a very nasty wound. If a person gets shot with an arrow, that person would substain a very nasty wound. I believe it was two seasons ago on the TV program "Mythbusters", Jamie and Adam was playing around with archery on why you put an arrow head on an arrow. Jamie made several flint arrowheads and was using them while Adam just sharpened the end of the arrow. They used the same bow in a jig and shot the arrows at different targets and pieces of skin. There was NO difference in the penatration or the flight, all the arrows hit the target in the same place. The conclusion ended up being that an arrow using the broadheads left a bigger hole in the skin allowing the animal to bleed out faster and the blunt end of the arrowhead would keep the arrow in the animal longer. Yes you sure can use a wooden arrowhead, the only difference between a wooden one and a flint one is that the stone would standup longer. Lets face the fact that if you missed and hit a stone or tree, BOTH stone and wood would break. Adam's final conclusion was that Flint arrowheads were the latest technology for the time and was therefore the latest "BLING" and that is what attracted the "Caveladies". If you stop and really think about it he might be right. A sharp stick flying at you at 50 or 60 feet per second will probably go through you. A sharpened wood broadhead, if it did not go through, would keep the arrow in you and cause you to bleed out. What more could you ask for? Dave
early1		#6	[-]
Posts: 377 (05/04/09 6:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ok step back and understand that an arrowhead kills by hemmorage. It cuts it's way through an animal. What most of you are describing is a simple puncture wound - can you die from a puncture wound? Sure you bet, but it certainly is not a humane way to hunt or ethical for that matter. JMHO ''Life's tough......it's even tougher if you're stupid.'' -- John Wayne
David Morningstar		#7	[-]
Posts: 203 (05/04/09 1:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There are some photos of bamboo broadheads in this thread: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/25455 I would expect a lot less penetration than a knapped stone point but it would be a nasty wound with lots of bleeding. A plain point on a shaft has little to no effect in bringing down a game animal.
dbowser		#8	[-]
Posts: 216 (05/04/09 5:21 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	early1, I agree that only a puncture wound is not what a hunter is going for. It is much better to hit the animal in a vital area such as a heart lung shot, but you and I both know that it is not always the outcome of an arrow shot. Hell it is not always the outcome of a good rifle shot. The advantage of using a broadhead point is if you do not kill the deer or rabbit with one shot, it will stick in and leaves a blood trail you can follow. Not what you are going for but it happens. David Morningstar, In the TV show I was talking about they used a flint arrowhead and an arrow without any head, only the tip of the shaft sharpened to a point like what you would get from a pencil sharpener. The bow was set in a jig with a quick release on the string. That way the pull strength of the bow would be the same on each shot. If I remember correctly they used a ballistic jell block for the target. All the arrows were wood. They found that the depth of the two arrows was almost identical. The depth of the flint tip was less then an inch deeper. They then went to an archery range and shot at paper targets. They had several of each type of arrows and shot all of them at the same target. The grouping of the arrows was all together. Now granted, they did not have any arrows tipped with a wooden broadhead, so the penetration might not be as deep as a flint broadhead because of the drag on the point against the meat and bone. But I would garantee I would not want to be hit with one. If you get hit in the heart with a flint broadhead, steel broadhead, wood broadhead, steel target point, or even with a sharpened wooden arrow shaft you are going to die. Dave Last Edited By: dbowser 05/04/09 5:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
David Morningstar		#9	[-]
Posts: 205 (05/05/09 3:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I saw the program, I wasnt impressed with their reasoning. They were comparing the time taken to knap a flint point versus the time taken to sharpen a wood shaft and saying that this made the wood point superior. A good knapper can make a practical if not pretty point in maybe 30 mins work. Compared to the hours or days spent stalking, and the reward of a deersworth of meat, hide, sinew etc, this is a trivial effort. A better gel experiment would have been to cast bloodbags into the gel connected via a tube to a raised header bottle to simulate blood pressure. You could then measure the rate of blood loss from the header bottle. This would give a very clear advantage to the flint broadhead compared to the pointed wooden shaft.
spoons		#10	[-]
Posts: 77 (05/05/09 4:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I saw Tim Dillard at a knap in make what everyone presant agreed was a serviceable arrow point in under 30 seconds . Picked up a piece of scrap against the stop watch made the point with basel notches , said another 30 seconds and it would have been even better. If you can make a sharp flint point in that time why struggle with a wooden one? Last Edited By: spoons 05/05/09 4:19 PM. Edited 1 times.
paleoarcher		#11	[-]
Posts: 51 (05/05/09 4:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the reason id make a wood one is because of my lack of knapping skills and material.
Metalking00		#12	[-]
Posts: 72 (05/05/09 6:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The bamboo broadheads I saw looked like they'd work realy well. Even though they were old, they were still sharp. They'd definitely cause more than just a puncture wound. Life has meaning only in the struggle Triumph or defeat is in the hands of the Gods So let us celebrate the struggle
Lady Nauriel		#13	[-]
Posts: 238 (05/06/09 10:07 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You can only make a flint arrowhead if you have flint. Some areas don't have knappable rocks readily available. The wooden arrowhead would be yet another tool in one's arsenal of skills, ready to be used if needed.
torjusg		#14	[-]
Posts: 564 (05/06/09 12:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would recommend test shooting them on some kind of dead animal first. Personally I have tested my glass and flint points on dead sheep. Very satisfying results: Straight through. Don't think you would achieve that with wood, but it would definitely be an interesting experiment. I think you would need a point with longer, thinner cutting surfaces in order to compensate for a duller edge. Ask local farmers if they have any dead livestock (preferably fresh) laying around. Or ask them to call you if something dies. Torjus Gaaren "Environmental Endtimer" Living Primitively
NordicFletchr		#15	[-]
Posts: 366 (05/06/09 1:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I thought I saw something about wood broadheads in Jim Hamm's book, Bows & Arrows of the Native Americans? I know I did see them in one of my books -- I'll have to check when I get home (I'm at the library...). I do know they are possible, and efficient enough for at least "occassional" use on small game. The only difference between a hero and a coward is the direction in which he runs. -- Proverb of the Mongol Horde
wolfsire		#16	[-]
Posts: 1059 (05/06/09 2:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	About halfway down this link there is a photo with several palm and bamboo points, some are broad. http://www.coconutstudio....20Methods%201%20Pana.htm Steve
wolfsire		#17	[-]
Posts: 1060 (05/06/09 2:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From my own experiments with bamboo broadheads on targets I will say that they cut very nicely, but because I tend to miss the target, they get battered up pretty bad. Various reports also say that they are best at short range because they tend to plane. Most, but not all, that I have seen are long. Neither palm nor bamboo are actually wood, but more like a grass, and are very hard at the cutting edge. A wooden broad head should work just fine, but I would want to fire harden, burnish, something with a high sg that is not too brittle. There is a problem with the link, but if you google image "wooden arrowhead" the second picture looks like a real one in a museum. Steve Last Edited By: wolfsire 05/06/09 2:49 PM. Edited 1 times.
Hillbilly NC		#18	[-]
Posts: 2791 (05/06/09 5:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As for the mythbusters, they show their ignorance on this one-they're comparing apples and carrots. Sure, a sharp stick will penetrate well-but it doesn't cut. If it hits an artery, it will likely push it aside. When that sharp flint point hits an artery, it slices it in two. As someone else said, arrows kill by hemmorage and massive trauma to organs, which requires a cutting edge, not just a point. A steel field point will penetrate as far or maybe farther than a broad head, but you don't see anybody deer hunting with them. It would go all the way through a deer, but you'll probably never see the deer again. Bamboo will get razor sharp. Most hardwoods won't. Bamboo is really light, though. You would have to make your arrows a lot longer or add weight to the front somehow to get a weight-forward balance so that it would fly right. Save the Cro-Magnons
wolfsire		#19	[-]
Posts: 1061 (05/07/09 8:01 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	paleoarcher wrote: the reason id make a wood one is because of my lack of knapping skills and material. With this reason, I would recommend most a bone point. Lots of good toots available for that. Steve
Hillbilly NC		#20	[-]
Posts: 2799 (05/07/09 9:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Or steel trade points, if you're going to hunt deer. Save the Cro-Magnons

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