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 uscg4good |
Finnish archery |
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Posts: 1 (03/15/09 10:47 AM) |
Can someone point me to some resources to find information on Finnish archery and the bows used by the Finns. I found a language relation between Finnish and
Magyar people, Magyar bows, but that's about it. Any help is appreciated, thanks.
Leo |
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DarkSoul |
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Posts: 269 (03/15/09 10:54 AM) |
Welcome to PaleoPlanet!
You may want to get into contact with some Finnish archers/bowyers. The following two PaleoPlanet members are Finnish, and may be able to help you further: - Juri - Matte (These are the exact screennames/usernames.) Edited typo in username
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286
Last Edited By: DarkSoul
03/15/09 10:56 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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uscg4good |
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Posts: 2 (03/15/09 10:55 AM) |
Cool, thanks!
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1888 (03/15/09 1:22 PM) |
The "Saami" two-woods were used by the finns as far as I know
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Juri |
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Posts: 443 (03/15/09 3:10 PM) |
Welcome to Planet Leo!
Yes, the Fenno-Ugrian two wood bows. I dont know if they were any different than the Saami-bows. Unfortunately there is not too much information available around. Tuukka (Sumpitan) would be a right man to answer this. Its a very interesting idea that there could be a relationship with Maguar bows also. If I remember right, Ragnar Insulander had an idea that the two-wood bow could be the missing link between self bow and composite bow. Juri |
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jkekoni |
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Posts: 489 (03/15/09 11:53 PM) |
Ragnar insulander had also vision that B-bows are allways composite.
He had obiviously not made bows from green wood (or at all?). Since drying preworked stave makes is reflex. (not Yew and Juniper, they become deflex). The the bow is B after tillering process, because much of the spontaneuous reflex is lost during tillering. In iceland there is last name Finbogadottir (Dother of Finnish bow, based on my Swedish). I do not know if anyone knows if Finboga is bow type, or bow bought from Finland. (Expensive import item.) I am also Finnish, but I am afraid we know very little about the finbows. Compression pine belly and birch back is the only type known for certain. (I would be supriced if rowan selfbow would not have been used in southern parts of Finland.) |
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1889 (03/16/09 1:27 AM) |
Ragnar Insulander made quite a few bows, even a "how to make a saami bow" pamphlet.
The finnbogi mentioned from iceland/in old nordic sources can also refer to saami as they aslo where called finnar just as the finns in sweden. The word used for finns and sami means "trappers" (fingar) or fångare in modren swedsih. For a long time saami waere called skri-finnar (ski-trappers or ski-finns) |
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Juri |
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Posts: 444 (03/16/09 7:51 AM) |
Thanks Henrik, I didnt know that!
At the medieval times when you already had the kings and castles in Sweden, the majority of population in Finland were still hunter/gatherers. I have heard that the oldest still spoken languages in Europe are finnish, saami and basque. |
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 693 (03/16/09 8:06 AM) |
There are two compression pine belly slats from the Finnish early Medieval times, that's all we have regarding (pre)historic bows. The same applies to
arrows: a single Medieval broken oaken blunt arrowshaft. The acidic Finnish soil destroys organic materials fast, leaving only bogs where anything could be
found (and wetland excavation is hellishly expensive). In contrast arrowheads abound, starting with flint points at 10 000 years of age, and all through our
prehistory (flint, quartz, slate, quartzite, tuffite heads of many shapes and sizes from the Stone and Bronze ages, socketed and tanged iron heads of bodkin,
broadhead and fork types from the Iron age, as well as some surviving bone broadheads). But without the shafts, fletchings, bows, strings or literary sources
there is little we can tell about Finnish archery. Features in the two extant belly slats and the iron arrowheads point to historic Western Siberia as a
plausible parallel: pine bellies backed with birch slats, separate cherry siyahs added, bows reflexed and of a hefty force-draw curve, but with huge limb mass
working well only with the very heavy, finger-thick pine arrows the Siberians used. Deadly 'n durable for close-range hunting everything from moose on
down.
Icelandic and Norse "Finn" means Saami, Finnbog is a Saami bow. Not that just the Saami used the two-wood bows: they were da bomb over a huge area of land between the Atlantic and the Pacific for a millennia. Magyars (Hungarians) and Finns share a common Sub-Neolithic proto-language with dozens of other, smaller Finno-Ugrian-speaking peoples. Historically speaking, there has been no culture exhange between Hungarians and Finns in the last 7000 years or so. Tuukka |
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Juri |
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Posts: 445 (03/16/09 8:44 AM) |
Bows made by some Fenno-ugrian tribes.
Last Edited By: Juri
03/16/09 9:00 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Simo Hankaniemi |
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Posts: 279 (03/16/09 4:44 PM) |
Juri, the majority of Finns were not hunter-gatherers during the Medieval period (AD 500 - 1500). Most were farmers and fishermen, and they did some hunting
too. In the northern part of the country the Saami were hunters and fishermen, some had also reindeer.
The laminated bow already mentioned was not the only type. Yew was known (we have an ancient name of "juka" for it) and very likely used for self bows similar to other people using the same wood. The first Finnish bows close to 10 000 years ago were very likely made of juniper. After the ice age there were not many woods to choose. There is still a strong folk memory of juniper bows and many modern Finns of he older generation have used juniper self bows as a child. When selling wooden children´s bows the would-be customers very often want to know, if the bows are of juniper. If not, they are not happy. Crossbows took over most of Finland during the 14th century and later, but the Saami had the laminated bow in general use during the 16th century and later. |
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 694 (03/17/09 2:34 AM) |
Simo's suggested Medieval period doesn't apply to Finland, where 500 - 800 AD is labeled the Middle Iron Age, and Medieval times start not until 1200
AD or so. What's interesting is that there's still not evidence of yew ever growing on the mainland, and the wood spread to Åland, too, not until the
early subboreal period a few thousand years ago. Many other woods must've been in use. Soon after the Ice Age there already were woods like birch, rowan
and several species of the denser willows alongside juniper here, all of which make bows when appropriately handled. As a Northern "instinctive"
bowyer kid I always opted for rowan and pussy willow despite juniper growing all over the place. It was infinitely easier to pick flawless, easy-to-work stock
from the first two compared to the gnarly, pin-riddled juni. Alaskan natives used birch for their big game bows and willow for small game bows, not juniper.
Tuukka |
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BillOregon |
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Posts: 783 (03/17/09 6:32 AM) |
So as a side note, the use of crossbows by the villainous "Tjuden" intruders in the film "The Pathfinder" would date the time of the movie
to 1200-1400?
(For those fascinated like me by the Saami, watch for a Norwegian film, "The Kautokeino Rebellion," to appear soon in the U.S.) |
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Jaro |
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Posts: 250 (03/17/09 8:56 AM) |
Bill, I hope you speak about the old scandinavian film here, not the hollywood atrocity shot year or two ago?
Wasnt there a thread while ago about bows in lithuneinan museum with lots of these bows photograped? I mean two wood, birch barks, possible sinew, short siyahs with typical grooves? Jaro |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 120 (03/17/09 3:26 PM) |
I've made a few:
Jaro, are you thinking of this one? Do you mean the longitudinal grooves/lines that run along the center and the edges of the belly laminate? 
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Jaro |
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Posts: 251 (03/17/09 3:43 PM) |
Yes that is for sure one of them, but I think I have some high res good pics in my archive. I have to search for it, I try in morning. It was also several bows
actually.
The ones you made are fantastic. Do you know this? 
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 121 (03/18/09 12:34 AM) |
Goodie! I've got a few more big-size photos of that bow, but as far as I can understand there's only one on my pictures?
Not sure if I've seen that illustration before. Where and when is it from? There's also a few siberian bows in this database: http://anthro.amnh.org/anthro_coll.htm |
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Jaro |
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Posts: 252 (03/18/09 12:53 AM) |
Its from Petrus de Ebulo manuscript.
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Juri |
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Posts: 446 (03/18/09 4:08 AM) |
Very nice bows Kviljo!
Is that yew in the first two bows? I cant find much differences between Saami and Fenno-Ugrian two-wood bows. Looks exactly the same model. Bellys made from compression wood conifers, backs from birch, willow or such, glued together with boiled or steamed fish skins. Approximately man tall, stiff recurved tips, wrapped with thin strips of birh bark. Coul it be possible that "Finnbog" meant them all? |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 122 (03/18/09 7:52 AM) |
The belly laminates are compression pine in all three of them. Birch siyahs and birch back laminate. The one to the left is around 60" long, if I remember
correctly.
Finnbogi are probably these two-wood-bows. In the sagas they are called "tvividr". Even though they probably are what one could call saami bows, there have been found fragments of five of these bows in Bergen (which is a medieval town), Norway. |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 123 (03/18/09 7:57 AM) |
Hmmm, Petrus de Ebulo - can't say I've heard of it before. It seems the drawer had problems deciding who should hold the bows, hehe.
It's from central europe around 1200? |
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