Back to basics with a fur on deer skin

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Panzer Packrat	Back to basics with a fur on deer skin	Lead	[-]
Posts: 112 (01/09/09 2:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Seems that every time I try tanning, I get something wrong. This time I've reresearched, and think I've got it (but undoubtedly don't) Anyways, what has happend so far: 1)Took a small doe Skinned, trimmed (not fleshed yet) and salted heavily, then folded flesh to flesh, fur to fur, and froze In the future: 2)Defrost in cool pickling solution - Any tips on defrosting it while avoiding bacteria? I would like to think that all the salt will do it, but I doubt it... 3)Once maleable, flesh thoroughly 4) put back in pickle, as it likely will thaw faster than the pickle takes 5) when pickled, remove, neutralise 6)Tan in egg tan - Remove, squeeze very thoroughly, repeat for a total of at least twice. 7) Wash in water and work thoroughly while drying over a post or cable to soften, flesh side only. So, before I start, what bits are wrong?
Panzer Packrat		#1	[-]
Posts: 113 (01/09/09 7:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Got this off Braintan.com: (I've replaced "brain" for egg, as that's what I'll be doing. Someone else wrote: My next planned step is to relax hide over night in salt solution (2# to 1 gallon water)... enough to cover hide... then hang to drip.... blow-dry the hair side cause it's getting cool... then rub in the egg mixture..... and work the hide to soften until dry.... soak in the egg solution again.... soften again..... then smoke.... Questions 1) Will the salting be enough to hold the hair? Do I need to Salt the next hide if I have time to egg after fleshing? Some folks seem certain the salting is necessary.... others claim to skip this step? I am talking here of hair-on hides..... I can see skipping the salting on making buckskin... unless of course I need to use as preservative. Would Vinegar soak (pickle hold hair better? 2) Do I rub concentrated egg in the hide and then drop the hide in the egg solution..... or leave the hide stretched?... and only egg the skin side? Do I rinse off extra at any point? 3) Do I need to rinse the salt solution off after relaxing? Thanks for Listening! I'm already looking forward to more hides. I appreciate any help you could give me. !am so grateful for this forum. This is some other stuff I'm interested in knowing, as it's pretty applicable. Thanks again!
Quillsnkiko		#2	[-]
Posts: 1843 (01/09/09 11:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It looks to me like you are trying to use 2 different methods .you mention pickling solution in the first post ..unthawing the hide in it?? I would never do that ..just unthaw the hide and flesh it ... it does not take that long to flesh a hide....I would not put it in any pickling stuff until it was fleshed at all .If your hide is fresh ..or fresh frozen its not going to start slipping hair all that fast unless youve stored in some where warm for a while . I am not sure you need to soak it in salt solution etc..either .seems to me you just need to get the hair side clean and dry then put your tanning mixture..eggs or what ever on the flesh side and start working it . don't drop the whole hide hair side & all into the solution of eggs etc..you will have one huge mess if you get that or brains into the hair a lot by soaking .u just need it on the flesh side and you could do all that on a frame. to .. after the hide is fleshed you might have to wash the hair side of the hide . getting it dried out as fast as you can . then if you have a frame mount it and work the egg mixture into the flesh side.... working it in good with a axe handle or some kind of tool.... If I were doing it myself I would mount the unfleshed hide on a frame ..flesh it in the frame with a elk leg bone flesher ..I would probably have washed the hide first to clean the hair and get any caked blood out of the hair... they flesh real easy on the frame with a elk leg bone and very, very clean. then I would take a hair dryer and dry the hair good using towelles etc to. than work in the tanning stuff... I would probably use brains to rather than eggs.then I'd work the hide .It would probably take more than one braining and egging ..and I might try to do some smoking of the hide as well between brainings or eggings.you need to keep working and stretching the hide while its drying. " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
Panzer Packrat		#3	[-]
Posts: 114 (01/11/09 8:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ok - so here's progress so far: Got skin thawed (which was helped a lot by the fact I had salted it beforehand, so it was cold, but quick to thaw, and had a good salt content to hinder bacteria) Fleshed it thoroughly. For me this is a big thing, as I've had trouble in the past, but this one fleshed beautifully. Now it's in the pickling. I've got it down to ph 1 am am checking it about 1-3 hours apart just to make sure the bacteria doesn't make a last stand and bring the ph up. Here's a question - how long should I leave it in there for? I've read once the PH holds steady at 1, it's done. Somewhere else I read to leave it for between 1-3 days, but it didn't specify whether or not that was for buckskin or deer with fur on. Also - with fur on deer skin, in a strong (ph1) pickling solution, what is the optimal, least, and most one can leave it in the bath? I've heard so much conflicting and unexplained info that I am not sure what to think. My plan is to let it sit for 2 days, or slightly less in the pickling solution, then haul it out, wash it thoroughly with dawn soap and lots of fresh water to neutralise, then thoroughly dry the fur out to avoid slippage. Once the skin is "sponge" like in consistancy, I'll brain it with warm but not hot brains on the flesh side only, letting it sit for an hour first then working it until it's almost all dry. After that, depending on feeling either rebrain, or continue working until absolutely dry and soft. Then smoke. Sound like a plan? Last Edited By: Panzer Packrat 01/11/09 8:56 PM. Edited 1 times.
paskinner		#4	[-]
Posts: 71 (01/12/09 7:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If the ph stays down and the skin is fully plumped all over (make sure there are no spots where the skin is sticking together) you can leave it in a very long time, in my experiance. I just recently did a gray fox that was in the pickle since last april, and it tanned up nice. For a deer skin, I think the rule of thumb is at least three days. The only thing I would do different-I would put it in a water and baking soda solution to neatralize. Other than that, sounds like a plan to me.
Panzer Packrat		#5	[-]
Posts: 116 (01/12/09 7:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks! Is that rule of thumb determined by thickness of skin, or just "that's how long it takes for the acid to do it's thing"? I've had it in for two days now and it's looking great and has plumped up really nicely. The fur is holding really well too - If I really tug it'll come out, but hey, it'll do that when it's alive too!
Panzer Packrat		#6	[-]
Posts: 119 (01/13/09 10:54 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Also - as a side note: With the brain tanning solution: if it gets into the on the edges of the skin and matts the fur up, how does one get it out? I would prefer not to completely rewash the hole hide. Think a damp cloth would work? Last Edited By: Panzer Packrat 01/13/09 11:17 AM. Edited 1 times.
oldmatt		#7	[-]
Posts: 52 (01/13/09 11:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If you are freezing your hides there is no reason to salt them,if it's a fresh hide just put it in the freezer and when you are ready just thaw it and go to working it
Quillsnkiko		#8	[-]
Posts: 1852 (01/13/09 12:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	if you get a little on the edges of the hide a damp warm cloth will clean the hair... just try to be careful and not get it soaking onto the hair.... also just letting it get dry and using a brush will knock it out of the edge hair..Its not really a problem unless you totally soak the hide in it. PA .....are you saying you left a fox skin in a salt solution for almost a year and the hair did not slip at all??? or did I read that wrong??? " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
Panzer Packrat		#9	[-]
Posts: 120 (01/13/09 1:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmmm - so here I was being all smug thinking I had got the pelt all done. Well, until 10 mins ago I had. The fur was dry, soft, and holding well. The skin was almost dry, soft and white. I was stretching it over my knee and suddenly my hand slipped and took a huge tuft of hair with it! Underneath, the skin was soft, smooth, and a little oily (exact same consistancy and smell as the brain tan). What could cause this? A) leaving the brains on too long? An hour wouldn't cause bacteria would it? Would several brainings cause that? Would leaving them on for 8 hours do that? B) pickling insufficiently - if I pickled for 2 days instead of three in a very acidic solution, would it simply fail to fully penetrate? C) I used a warm hair dryer to dry the hair - could that have jump started bacteria growth? D) In the areas that the hide is completely dry, the skin seems to be holding a lot better - am I just accidentally pulling the hair out before the skin tightens onto it? The hair is coming out in tufts with what looks like an incredibly thin layer of skin on the bottom. I'm not seeing any signs of the roots poking through... looks like they were shaved off, or the roots are in the skin layer that's coming with them. In the end I have some very nice buck skin anyways, so it's not a huge loss, but I like to know why things don't turn out the way I think they will... Last Edited By: Panzer Packrat 01/13/09 1:40 PM. Edited 1 times.
paskinner		#10	[-]
Posts: 73 (01/13/09 6:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Quillsnkiko wrote: PA .....are you saying you left a fox skin in a salt solution for almost a year and the hair did not slip at all??? or did I read that wrong??? Not a mere salt solution. A pickle. I use Rittel's safety acid and as long as the ph stays down you can leave them in indefinately. I'm not going to attempt to troubleshoot what went wrong with the deer. I no longer do hair on deer for other people for just that reason tho'-too many varibles that can cause hair slippage.
Quillsnkiko		#11	[-]
Posts: 1853 (01/13/09 8:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ya..... that what I sort of thought not a mere.... salt solution but a true pickle which will "set" the hair. Panzer ..you picture shows in good detail ...just what needs to be removed ..to make a hair off buckskin. the layer the hair is rooted in is very apparent in your picture. I would not care to venture a guess as to what went wrong either...but apparently from the lists of fur skins avaliable ..from different processors Ive seen .....a lot of partial slippage goes on even in commercial tanning processes ..in tannerys with fur skins. They will list the skins ..certain types especailly as having differing degrees of hair loss. I am sure the reason why they slip resides a lot in how the skin was cared for after it was removed from the animal. I suppose its entirely possible for your deer skin to be slipping in some places and not others... I don't know. I think if it were me I'd get some kind of pickle like PA mentions or mix one up from the proper porportions next time to put the fleshed fresh skin into. and like what some one above said... don't salt the skin if you are going to freeze it. One thing I know to be true.... hair off buckskin is a very forgiving product ..you can end up with a great hide .... even if you did not take good care of the hide well. Hair on...... if you screw up and do not care for the hide properly from the get go and end up with a good end product ..its.... pure luck. " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
Panzer Packrat		#12	[-]
Posts: 121 (01/13/09 10:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well - I've got it completely dried out and it seems like it was only slipping when wet. Once I got the area around the slip to dry it pretty much stopped slipping, so should be ok.
torjusg		#13	[-]
Posts: 561 (01/19/09 8:52 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think you may be "shocking" the fur, which can make them fall out. Scraping too hard can do that. Torjus Gaaren "Environmental Endtimer" Living Primitively

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Back to basics with a fur on deer skin

Back to basics with a fur on deer skin

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