opinions and thoughts please

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Forum Jump

Author	Comment
chad bullock	opinions and thoughts please	Lead	[-]
Posts: 10 (06/24/09 4:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I am really working on figuring out percussion thinning, and here lately I haven't been able to do much knapping. I have been doing some serious thinking about what I am doing and the problems that arise. Here are my thoughts..... as it appears to me if I strike a proper platform at an angle for a long flake and it hinges, but don't dive and seems as though it would have feathered out if it went on. With that one I think not a hard enough blow, but maybe a proper angle. The other hinge that sometimes occurs is a diving hinge that had no chance of feathering out, I believe when this happens to me it is when the angle is too much. I am pretty confident I am setting up pretty good platforms, and I am trying to remove serious thinning flakes early on. I just am really struggling at maintaining much width and getting the piece thin enough to suit me at the level where I am. I am not expecting too much, I am just trying to improve. I want to take those large thinning flakes and have them feather out. Usually they run far enough to the other side they are easy to get out, but I would like to prevent them. I am creating them by trying to figure out just how much of an angle I can tilt the piece. I have had better luck getting my pieces thinner (for my ability) and maintaining width by holding where I do create the hinges, than when I hold the angle safer and don't create them. I guess where I need to be is in between both of the ways it is working out for me. I would be interested to hear how much (approximate) angle you hold the piece, and whether you tilt it more and strike more straight down, or if you tilt it less and strike more into the piece. If you strike more into the piece what is the approximate striking angle? ie 45 degrees into it or what? I watched Jim Winn's youtube series on "super thin bifaces" and tried striking more into it as he does, and I still got my hinges, but I was more successful than usual before I hit a platform too high. I am not expecting too many responses because if I were you I wouldn't read all of this either..lol Thanks for any opinions and help. Chad
mammut		#1	[-]
Posts: 199 (06/24/09 5:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Chad: Here is my cent. From what you wrote you don't need any advice, you know whats going on. The trouble is putting it all together and being consistant enough to make those flakes travel every time. My problem is definitley consistancy, but its getting better with time. So my opinion is you haven't given it enough time. As someone who doesn't get to knap alot I can honestly say that it slows progress way down. I've been at this for 13 years, and I see some guys on the planet excede my abilities by year two. Its a little frustrating, but I just try to keep the perspective that 1. I ain't that bad and 2. its just for my own enjoyment. So, give it time and don't let yourself get frustrated, and most importantly relax and enjoy the experience. Here are snippets I go back to every time I knap. If something goes wrong I can always rely on these words to tell me what wasn't quite up to par. "Ridges are your roadmap, follow them" - Kenny Wallace "Abrade, abrade, abrade" - Dan Long "Attitude is everything, beleive you can do it and you will" - Craig Ratzat "Isolate your platform" - Woody Blackwell on DVD "If you did it right, hit it!" - me Best of luck, You'll get there! Rodger
rhymeswithwhat	Chad	#2	[-]
Posts: 525 (06/24/09 5:57 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree very much with Rodger and have another suggestion too. I don't always thin with billets, boppers or hammerstones. More and more I have been using an antler punch and striking the punch with a hard leather mallet or a hammerstone and using the indirect punch methods described by Marty, Justaflake in his flintknappingtips videos. You can really hold a punch at just the angle you want before you strike it. The punches can be substantial in size too. I have several, the smallest is about 3/8 inch diameter at the small end and about 4 inches long. the next ones step up in small end diameter to 1/2 then 3/4 inch in diameter at the small business end but all are about the same length and the business ends are hemi-spherical. They can be whitetail or moose tines. Some knappers use stone cylinder shaped punches too with the same indirect method. The stone punches have been identified in artifacts too. Copper punches are fine also. The platforms and angles are the same with indirect percussion punching, it is just your accuracy that improves by holding the punch still and hitting it with another tool. Think about it, watch Marty's videos, Jim Winn has some videos on punching too, and then give it a try. DC Waldorf's new video, Beyond Bashing has really solidified my belief in indirect percussion punching. He rocks. Rhymes
mjflinty		#3	[-]
Posts: 614 (06/24/09 5:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Humm, I like Rodger's reply. It does sound like you have the concepts in your mind and you are applying them. One thing, I've learned over the past 17 years of knapping is that you can have the perfect platform... you could sit down with me and I could set it up for you but, you also have to have the right striking angle and amount of force in your swing; if not... yup you get a step. With my students I like to do both the platform setup for them and then correct the angle of the biface before they hit it. This does two very important things... you learn and create a mental template for what a proper platform looks like and you visualize it with that angle too. This technique has worked for nearly all my students... most of the time I even get to see that light bulb above their head light up! Good chipping, Michael
knapperbob		#4	[-]
Posts: 47 (06/24/09 6:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Chad, If you are getting hinges, not steps, then the problem is most likely due to tool bounce. Bouncing is especially easy with copper tools because of their hardness. Increased muscle and velocity can be culprits with any tool. I like to recommend a more relaxed delivery than a forced one. When you use the right kind of blow, I find that angle of blow is not nearly so important as people make it out to be. Bob
chad bullock		#5	[-]
Posts: 11 (06/24/09 7:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks guys for your replys, mammut I have really read and studied the concepts, I just haven't been able to put them into the rock yet, and it is tough to find time to work at it lately. For the two years I have been knapping I was able to do alot the first 8 months and then had to slow down for this and that. Next was the birth of my second child and my wife has alot going on so that pretty much brought it to a screeching halt. Now most of the time when I knap I am and feel rushed and I know that is a no-no. The quality and platform prep, paying attention, and accuracy suffer. I am super determined to get it all worked out. rhymeswithwhat you will think I am lying, but I gave indirect percussion a thought yesterday. I do use it some on edging slabs, and tough to get to platforms. That is for sure an accuracy remedy. Thanks for bringing that up and keeping on my mind. mjflinty I sure do have to figure out those angles, I think instead of trying to make something, or make a thin (for me) biface I am going to experiment with platforms and angles. Maybe get a face fairly uniform with a continous platform and hold at one angle, see what happens, move down and go from what happened and adjust to try to acheive what I want. knapperbob I will also change up my strike delivery methods, I think sometimes due to feeling rushed I do get in a hurry and that along with other variables causes me trouble. I am going to do some tests on you all's info, I will pay more attention to what happened and why if I am not trying to rush and find the next place to prepare a platform.
reefera4m	Re: Thinning flakes	#6	[-]
Posts: 51 (06/24/09 8:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Chad, I'm about where you are in learning to percussion flake. One thing that has helped me recently is the application of finger pressure. Where you grip the stone, that is where your finger tips apply pressure to the piece can direcly influence the length of the flake. I got a couple of lessons from Emory Coons, his father and Stu Murdock (aka Ute Flintknapper) and they demonstrated that finger placement/finger pressure has a significant influence of the length and direction of the flake. The flake will tend to follow the pressure. It can help prevent unintentional short flakes and the steps and hinges that result. It also help with influencing the direction of the flake. It seems to work for me and my percussion flaking is getting better. Still, like you, not yet what I hope to acheive. Good thing I picked up 300 more lbs of Glass Buttes obsidian a couple of weeks ago!
deerstand		#7	[-]
Posts: 2 (06/25/09 11:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the more rock you break the better you get, but i dont htink you will ever "not get a hinge" one of the best ive ever been around, crackin mark brackin ocationally got a hinge. the thing is he could usually get rid of them.
Chips Rock2		#8	[-]
Posts: 272 (06/25/09 8:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ha GOOD one thing I learned and have to relearn every once in a while is that it takes a relaxed swing I got that I think from knapperbob. The reason I started this with Ha Good is that one of my favorite books is "Old Tools New Eyes" by Bob Patten also known as knapperbob (I think). If so Bob I have read your book I bet 2 dozen times and a great book it is, but I must be slow cause it took me forever to understand the following comment from you book, it kept me up at night (grin) ..once you have the biface thinned all future strikes should be at right angle to the axis...(I hope that is fairly accurate but not an exact quote). I never understood this comment until I started to get my bifaces thin. I hope it means to thin the biface you can tilt it up or strike into the stone, but once you have it thinned to your satisfaction you should no longer tilt the biface or strike into it just strike at a right angle to the axis. I hope that is fairly close. If so I can cross that issue off my list.
chad bullock		#9	[-]
Posts: 12 (06/25/09 11:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well I tried again, but I really honestly didn't slow down. I just got in from work and thought man it's 75 degrees now at 1:00 am. That will be much better than trying to find a minute (if I even could) when it is 97 degrees. Well things didn't go as planned, but I do know my main problem. rush....rush. When I first began knapping and had just started getting the concept of percussion I had a really nice piece of stone begging to be hit and I couldn't resist. I read an article (in Chips I think) about someone telling someone to take one flake a day, even if it is a flake to prepare a platform. I can't say I stopped at one, but I always stopped after a couple and it turned out really good for where I was then. I guess the moral of this story is that is what I am going to do for a while. I think if I start a couple of spalls knowing I can just take a flake or two a day and go to the next I will force myself to slow down and pay attention. I know doing this won't solve all of my problems, but I believe it will prevent a few problems I create in a rush. Thanks for all the input guys. Chad
mammut		#10	[-]
Posts: 200 (06/26/09 5:41 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ah yes, like I said before, you know whats going on. Keep smilin! Rodger

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

opinions and thoughts please

opinions and thoughts please

Quick Reply