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 highlander7397 |
Moccasin Hides |
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Posts: 14 (10/10/07 10:25 AM) |
Id like to make some eastern woodland type moccasins. I need a pattern. Some tell me that deerskin wont work because its to thin. My buddy has a pair he's wore for years and they're made from deerskin. I've used it for bags and many other items and I would see why it would'nt work.Any help would be appreciated. Highlander |
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YTBM |
Re: Moccasin Hides | ||
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Posts: 944 (10/10/07 2:40 PM) |
Deer is what they were always made out of I think. Deer can be wildly variable in it's thickness depending on when it is killed and how old and what sex. Even a big buck can be thin if killed in the spring. Most mature bucks killed in Oct. or Nov. will give you a good hide for eastern style center-seams.
If you are using commercial tanned it will all be the same thickness because they run the hides through a splitter that shaves them all down to be the same. Get yourself some good home tanned, smoked, deerskin from a mature, fall killed buck and use the rump section. You will have some nice center-seam mocs. I've heard people say that they tried to use moose or elk, thinking it would last longer due to it's thickness. But for center-seams it's too thick to get the sewing to form right. A good thick deer is fine. "The world needs both perfume-makers and tanners; happy is he who is born to be a perfume-maker, woe is he who is born to be a tanner."
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Kechuwa |
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Posts: 553 (10/10/07 3:14 PM) |
I started a pair that I never finished.. Listen to Billy as the deerskins are all different thicknesses according to the individuals.. this pair I started is a real bugger to stitch as it is so thick! but a pair of moccs made with thicker skin should last a little while providing you stay off the pavement with them.
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BuildsTheFire |
Re: Moccasin Hides | ||
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Posts: 46 (10/10/07 5:14 PM) |
Deer should be perfectly fine. Moose is even better. Elk's fibers are too weak though and will wear through in half the time it takes for a deer hide moccasin to wear through.
Here is a site that should be helpful: www.nativetech.org/clothi...ctext.html I'm partial to the center seam puckered toe style. -Owen my blog: http://ancestralskills.blogspot.com
Mitakuye Oyasin |
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oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer |
Re: Moccasin Hides | ||
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Posts: 1683 (10/10/07 6:52 PM) |
This is not the Eastern center seam but it is real easy to make. It is in the Tipi book by the Laubins Called The Indian Tipi It's History Use and Construction. They are hard sole Souix style. The only thing they left out is the fact that if you soak the hard soles in water overnight they sew just like braintain or butter which ever you happen to be working with. I have made many of these and they tell how to measure right of the foot of the person who will be wearing them. I will try and see if I can get some pics of some Deb and I have made. Oh ya deer skin is a most excellent choice of material. Mike Smyth
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Bad Hand |
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Posts: 171 (10/10/07 8:15 PM) |
For the hard sole moccasins I use rawhide from an older buffalo bull. I have never made a woodland style soft sole.
I made a mistake with an Antelope hide and I put it in the brains when the brains were too hot. The hide shrunk and thickned and I thought I had ruined it but it did soften. It was more like a medium weight boot leather. I am going to use it for the pupper section of a pair of high top moccasins. I am going to try this with a deer hide and see what happens. The brains were cool enough that I could put my hand in I just couldn't hold it there for a long period of time. Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them.
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coogs |
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Posts: 790 (10/12/07 11:42 AM) |
I agree with Y. There's a lot of variability of thickness and durability on any particular deerhide. Just don't use the belly skin for mocs as it is thin and functionally designed to stretch. I know my own belly skin does that.
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Quillsnkiko |
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Posts: 2444 (10/14/07 10:13 AM) |
 ....LOL coogs somewhere around here I have a article by Darry Wood on center seam mocs ..that was from the Bulletin of Primitive Technology. I suppose it would be a copyright violation to scan and post it here??? any ideas if it would adm's???? or Tom. When I get time..... busier n a borrowed MULE.  Deer is the hide to use..Moose would be too thick for center seam ..but the kind Keth has a picture of you can manage with moose. I will post a picture of a Moose eastern stye with vamp ..soon. there are many varaiations of the vamp moc....its pretty easy to make its just a matter of fitting it to your foot ..with out a lot of extra stuff ( hide ) in places where it should not be. " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
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Bad Hand |
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Posts: 171 (10/17/07 7:44 AM) |
Here are a couple of pictures of the hard sole moccasins that I make. The upper is buckskin and the sole is buffalo rawhide.
  Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them.
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Quillsnkiko |
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Posts: 2444 (10/18/07 8:26 AM) |
Good looking moc Bad Hand....I like the addition of the cuff.. makes THE MOC LOOK BETTER THAN NO CUFF I think..and one could even make it longer and make high top mocs.
you sew on your sole same way as old time and as I do. nice even stitching also. great pictures. " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
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Hartung |
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Posts: 609 (05/29/09 12:00 AM) |
Hi!
Rawhide for moccasin sole is an interesting project. Now, when thinking of it, there is a question that comes into my mind: how do you prevent the rawhide soles from decaying when on a several day journey in rainy weather? Thanks! |
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Prairie Man |
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Posts: 214 (05/29/09 8:47 PM) |
Go barefoot ! That is what the Indians did when it got wet out . Good thing feet are tough if you let them get tough. A friend of mine used to go barefoot all
the time , he said it took about 3 months to get a nice thick layer of skin on the soles of his feet and then his shoes didn't fit.
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Hartung |
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Posts: 610 (05/31/09 12:41 AM) |
Prairie Man, thanks for your answer. I also thought that going barefoot would be a reliable option. I just need some confirmation …
Others who have experience with rawhide soles and who would like to relate their stories? |
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Quillsnkiko |
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Posts: 2110 (05/31/09 8:31 AM) |
Ive slid down hills in wet grass on my bum with both rawhide & latigo soles when I was younger...... I solved it by painting a coat of rubber stuff on the
sole ..the stuff you dip tool handles in to make them grippable.I don't know if you can still get the stuff.It gave you more traction.
" You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
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Hartung |
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Posts: 611 (06/03/09 10:47 AM) |
Hi, With a sole of different thickness, where do you place the heel? On the thicker or one the thinner part of the sole? Thanks!
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Bad Hand |
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Posts: 149 (06/03/09 4:03 PM) |
I always make the heel thicker as it will compress and wear quicker.
Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them.
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Hartung |
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Posts: 612 (06/04/09 11:27 AM) |
Bad Hand, thanks.
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Bad Hand |
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Posts: 151 (06/06/09 1:11 PM) |
Nice looking awl. I don't use an awl when I sew the moccasins, I sew the rawhide wet and use a glovers needle.
Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them.
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