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Moccasin rawhide - How do you do it?

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ninpo532	Moccasin rawhide - How do you do it?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 284 (05/19/09 10:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Hey guys, I am looking to see if anyone knows how to make rawhide for moccasin soles (for plains indian hardsole moccasins). I tried latigo for awhile and it is not real durable, its only good for minimal use. I tried using Moose rawhide and it didn't fully soften up. Some parts just didn't want to loosen up at all. I put the rawhide in a frame, stretched it tight and used a staker to loosen it up but, it still came out still even though it was mostly white (except for the edges). If anyone here knows how to do it, please let me know. I know some guys sell buffalo rawhide for this purpose but, I am sure they wouldn't want their secret out. Thanks for looking.
Quillsnkiko		#1	[-]
Posts: 2091 (05/19/09 11:26 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Darry wood recomends braining a rawhide ...working it only a little just to open it up a little and then smoking. leaving the hide semi soft....solving the problem of totally rawhide ..raw soles which when wet can dry twisted up. Works great. use a thick piece of hide for this like buffalo or thick elk..cow would work to..... or a deer neck area....which can make a couple of soles usually. " You can't stop the waves .... but, you can learn to surf."
inwabo		#2	[-]
Posts: 459 (05/19/09 2:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Badhand is the one I know that makes killer hard-sole plains mocs. In the rawhide work I have done for soles I have de-stretched the rawhide for use. THis involved a soak(sometimes long to get it to soften up - a week or more), cut out a chunk that will allow for much more than the project at hand, then allow to dry between boards or books to dry flat and shrink up at the same time. Then rehydrate to a damp state using wet towels, make sewing holes with an awl, then sew into place. These are hard soles, not flexible until they have been worn alot. Darry's recommendation is also very good, and his opinions are always worth a listen! Patrick Patrick Metaphors be with you.
Bad Hand		#3	[-]
Posts: 144 (05/19/09 3:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have found the buffalo raw hide works the best and lasts the longest. I use the rump area of a bull buffalo the older the bull the better. After I flesh it and dry it in a frame then I re-hydrate the hide and then let it shrink with out any stretching at all. This makes for a buckled hide but once you lay out your pattern and cut your sole It will not shrink any smaller. I lay out my soles so the the hair is on the out side I do not remove the hair or epidermis as it will wear off anyway. After the sole is cut out I soak them over night in water to where they are soggy. To sew the upper on I use a glovers needle because the raw hide is wet and sews easily. I lay out the sole so that the stretch runs from heel to toe. After I make the moccasins I wear them until they are dry. The sole will dry and shrink to your foot and the moccasins will fit like a pair of gloves. I have tried everything for moccasin soles and buffalo works the best and lasts the longest. I do not brain them as the soles do not need they will soften as you wear them. I have been teaching this class at Rabbit Stick and Winter Count for almost 20 years. Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them. Last Edited By: Bad Hand 05/19/09 3:45 PM. Edited 1 times.
the warrior yeti		#4	[-]
Posts: 1876 (05/19/09 9:20 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Man, it seems like those would become awfully slippery. Probably not so good for woodland huh? Forgive the ignorance, but I've never made or worn hard sole mocs before. Thanks for the advice on how to make them. I've always wondered... -Devin
Hartung		#5	[-]
Posts: 606 (05/19/09 11:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Bad Hand, excellent advice! Thanks!
ninpo532		#6	[-]
Posts: 285 (05/20/09 10:40 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the input guys. All I have worn is hardsole moccasins and they can be slippery at times but, its not all that bad. I will try these methods out on some moose I have. I won't have buffalo for awhile. I intend to use these on a semi regular basis. If I were to use latigo again, it would have to be atleast 1/4" thick. I also want to try to give my idea a shot 1 more time and see if I can get the rawhide completely pliable one more time and see what happens. I also what to try the method Bad hand mentioned. Bad-hand - I have not heard of your method before. That maybe what I have been looking for. I can't wait to try it out. Why do you put the hair side on the outside? Thanks again for your valuable input.
oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer		#7	[-]
Posts: 1457 (05/20/09 12:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have some twice tanned moose hide that wold make excelllent soles. It is soft but very tough. I doub't you could ever wear thru before wearing out a pair of mocs. Most of of is a quarter inch or so thick. This is thicker than leather shops sell. I use and sell it for leg pads to knap on. One I have is six years old and can hardly tell it is worn. Mike Smyth
Bad Hand		#8	[-]
Posts: 145 (05/20/09 2:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The hair side wears better and longer. The hair will wear off in a week or so of use. Think about it your shoe soles aren't all that soft and pliable, after awhile the soles will soften up. I put my moccasins while they are wet right after sewing them and wear them until they are dry they will form to your foot. Another thing I do is put Dr. Sholl's jell insoles in and that helps a lot for tender feet. Some people are only alive because there are laws against killing them.
ninpo532		#9	[-]
Posts: 291 (06/21/09 9:17 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hey Guys. I recently made a pair of plains hard sole moccasins. I did what Bad Hand had mentioned he has been doing and it worked really well for me. Sewing was so, so much easier than Latigo. I used moose rawhide for the soles and a 4G glovers needle. The soles are comfortable and look real nice. If anyone wants to know one of the best methods for sewing up moccasins hard soles, use Bad Hands method. As far as the other mentioned methods, I haven't had a chance to try them out. I hope this will be encouraging to others that is in the same spot I was in.

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Moccasin rawhide - How do you do it?

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