What wood will do for cross country skis?

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Quest for fire	What wood will do for cross country skis?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1858 (03/31/09 10:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I ask "will do"as not all woods are available to me at this moment. Right now the ordinary construction woods such as pine or spruce, are about all I can easily get. I have read that Saami skis wre made from fir. Would that be douglas fir? Is that commonly available in North America? Could I make these skis from pine or spruce or would it be a waste of my time? I suppose I could find myself an ash board though that is very expensive right now. It should be noted I am a large sized cuss. Six foot one, two hundred and fifty pounds. Anyway I admire any culture that cross country skis. The biathalon is my favourite sport even if just to watch. The skis will be used for a bit of exercise, to get me out in the Winter and hopefully, to learn a bit about an Archery style biathalon. I am not sure how the local park attendants will feel about that. Last Edited By: Quest for fire 03/31/09 11:43 PM. Edited 3 times.
Mmeso		#1	[-]
Posts: 173 (03/31/09 11:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Saami skis were definetly not made out of fir (Abies) since it does not grow in the Saami area - unless fir means spruce (Picea abies) in this case. I have never heard of Saami spruce skis, however. Traditionally for the skin lined skis scots pine (Pinus sylvestris) was often used and the more modern wooden skis without skins were usually made out of birch. This ofcourse does not mean that you could not try other woods. I myself have only made one pair of the short, wide and flat type out of birch. I guess it's more a right wood for the right type kind of question.
Sturlabuer		#2	[-]
Posts: 42 (04/01/09 11:48 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If you want a wood that "will do" for skis, I guess any wood that can make a bow can also make skis. Lots of similarities. So if you can get "bow-wood" somewhere, that will do it. Pine must be longer and wider to take the strain. I suppose wood for skis don't have to be dried as much, but do need some kind of sealer, I use pine tar on mine. Hickory is a very well suited wood for skis, and whats been used the last 100 years, well, except for the minor use of glass then... Although, hickory isn't what the Saami used. When you make the skis, try to make them suit you (your weight). It will be trial and error, but as long as they're not much to stiff or soft, it's OK.
Quest for fire		#3	[-]
Posts: 1866 (04/01/09 7:40 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Let me see if i can determine the advantage given to us by, the disadvantage pine has. Pine because it cannot take as much load must be wider,longer and thicker. I being heavy need a long wide ski to distribute my weight. Could the fact that pine needs to be wider and longer be an advantage to a man that needs a longer wider ski? I have plenty of dried pine sap. What do I need to do to it and how do I apply it to the ski? You know I have an excellent pair of mostly wooden cross country skis. They lack the bindings. I hope to make a pair of bindings like the Saami use. The bow with the basket on the end to act like a pushpole intrigues me. I have the perfect bow for that as well. I cannot figure out if the basket ring is bone or some more flexible material. Hey, when i run out of arrows, I can always poke my prey with the bow.
Mmeso		#4	[-]
Posts: 174 (04/02/09 12:11 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some quick comments: The basket ring is usually bent wood. Here is a pic: http://tinyurl.com/dcwjky And here one type of bindings: http://tinyurl.com/d6s5kp And another: http://tinyurl.com/cqt2cg I don't think you can make tar out of pine sap. Tar is traditionally extracted in many ways but it always includes burning with reduced oxygen. Here is an example: http://www.ouka.fi/ppm/turkansaari/tar_and_pitch.htm Since it's quite laborous work, at least in Finland you can buy pine tar in bottles.
Quest for fire		#5	[-]
Posts: 1869 (04/02/09 1:31 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ah O:K: I misread. Pine tar it is. Yes,while I would be interested to make some, it does take supplies I do not have. Maybe i can scare up a bottle of it locally. The hard part will be the wood. Pine or spruce I have in the shape of a two by six from the hardware nearby. I enjoy working with Ash and if it was feasible, to get some that would be the way to go. Hickory would be tough to get as well. I am looking at two Ash bow blanks hanging in the hallway and thinking if the handle were just a little wider they would work. I do have an elm stave that is wide enough but I only have one. Heck,I guess if it was easy, it might not not be worth doing. When I clicked on those links all I got was text. Maybe a pop up blocker is blocking the pics. Last Edited By: Quest for fire 04/02/09 1:40 AM. Edited 1 times.
Mmeso		#6	[-]
Posts: 175 (04/02/09 1:57 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sorry about the images, I have no problems with them. I try to add them here. Hope you can see them:
Quest for fire		#7	[-]
Posts: 1870 (04/02/09 4:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My goodness and thank you very muich. The baskets are so clearly displayed. I will have no problem copying them. The only Primitive basket I have seen to this date, is the one shown on the end of that bow. The basket rim is a white material. I presume it to be rib bone or some such semi-flexible material. The bindings are well portrayed too. I like the fact there are simple slip on ones and a set with straps to capture the ankle. It is my hope to make a pair to go on my modern wood skis. That would give me a jumping off point, (so to speak) with which I may immerse myself, into ski-ing cross country. I have decided to put the pine/spruce board idea to the side for now. This morning I started looking around for a suitable Ash sapling. I did find one but it is dangerously close to electric wires. The only other suitable Ash is on my Mayor's front lawn. He is still a bit upset about the last one I took. I do have a hickory sapling split and seasoned right now. It took so much effort to get them ready to make into a bow, it would not be fair to make them into skis. Aside from that,there is so much natural reflex in them. The curve is exactly the opposite camber needed for skis. Is there not pine tar in some ski wax? Could I not use that to seal the skis? ski wax is easily found locally. Last Edited By: Quest for fire 04/02/09 4:37 AM. Edited 1 times.
Sturlabuer		#8	[-]
Posts: 43 (04/02/09 8:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The basket rim is made of some kind of wood, a thin sapling of birch, hazel, or some other bendy wood. Best with green wood. Bamboo can also be used. On the bow/ski-pole the basket don't come off when you shoot. The nock is above the basket and spike. After my experience, the bindings on the bottom picture is better, you don't loose the ski so easily. You can also make one long ski and one very short ski. That setup was used a very long time ago. You slide forward on the long ski, and use the short one to push forward. I have never tried it though. By long I mean the height of you when you rise your arm above your head. I wouldn't use ski wax to seal the skis, I think it would be very sticky. If you can't get ahold on pine tar, you can use some kind of wax, (bee to parafin), oil, fat, grease etc. If you don't mind, you can also use paint or laquer(sp?)
Quest for fire		#9	[-]
Posts: 1872 (04/02/09 11:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You can also make one long ski and one very short ski. That setup was used a very long time ago. You slide forward on the long ski, and use the short one to push forward. I have never tried it though. By long I mean the height of you when you rise your arm above your head. Quote. Now that is interesting. I imagine the push used would be somewhat Like skating. I have a ton of beeswax and have a couple of recipes for making it harder or softer. Perhaps a little judicious experimentation is in order. I saw two beautiful Ash trees. Either will suit my purposes admirably. What I can do is cut them down,split them and rough shape them while green. I can try to put that camber in by bending and binding them between three trees. After three weeks I would do the finishing work along with putting the pronounced front recurve. Perhaps I can use the melted beesway sealer as a means of keeping heat in while I gently bend the tips. Can anyone tell me? Is this like a bow? Do growth ring violations increase the risk of a break while bending the skis?
Mmeso		#10	[-]
Posts: 176 (04/02/09 12:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The pair of (traditional) Finnish skies are of different lengths for a good purpose. The longer, called lyly, has a slippery bottom and slides easily on the snow. The shorter, called kalhu, has bearskin coating clued to its underside to increase friction and is used to kick the lyly into full speed. " http://springofdionysos.blogspot.com/ http://www.nba.fi/fi/kansatieteelliset_sukset Last Edited By: Mmeso 04/02/09 12:10 PM. Edited 1 times.
Quest for fire		#11	[-]
Posts: 1874 (04/02/09 2:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My Gawd,that is neat. Isn't our Planet a marvelous place? Am I right in presuming the way the hair lies is opposite to direction of travel? Kevin
Mmeso		#12	[-]
Posts: 177 (04/02/09 11:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes. That's the idea. It slides forwards with ease and grabs when you push for speed. You can also line two short skis with skins and make the wooden part flat and then bend the tips. By the way, the skin in the photos is from reindeer legs. Here's a pair of Saami skis of that type: http://kokoelmaselain.nba.fi/kuvat/A001/sa010253.jpg
Quest for fire		#13	[-]
Posts: 1876 (04/03/09 12:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hah,wasn't there a skinner on here asking what could be done with elk leg skins? Where I live the hunters often cut the hooves off high up. Even at the expense of a few ounces of meat,the tendons and skin. I am sure I can come up with something for the winter time. I do not know if I can skate/ski. That takes a fortitude of incredible proportions. When I see those biathaletes skate.ski up a hill, My leg muscles scream in protest. Whatever,it is something to try as skis get thrown out here all the time. Finding one that is too short is way easier than finding a pair close to the right length. I have a three day work like a dog weekend. Monday is no pic[nic either Once all that has settled down, I hope to get the tree cut,split,scraped and bending in a camber form in one day. Thst is,if the mayor does not catch me. LD
eli griggs		#14	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/10/09 10:14 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm late to this thread but I wanted to add that same length skis with short nap 'dog skins' which could be deer, or whatever, works quit well for CC. This is what I learned CC on in the U.S. Army years ago and we got about on these going up, about and back down Mt. Rainier in mid-winter mountaineer school. These skins were strapped on, rather than fixed, so they could be removed for downhill and several of us waxed the skis to good effect. The skins can break, but I suspect this was mostly due to being old stock, rather than a design flaw. As far as tar, would not birch oil and tar be easier to make product as well as superior for your purposes. Eli "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~ Thomas Jefferson ~ "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity". - Albert Einstein WANTED - Lee Loaders - .223, 6.5 Swede Mauser, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, .308 Win, .303 Brit, 7.7 WANTED- Turkey and Goose feathers for fletching arrows
Quest for fire		#15	[-]
Posts: 1896 (04/10/09 6:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Eli,thank you for your perspective. It is good to know that various skins were used and fastened by various means. I am a little hesistant to ever try skins for traction as my legs are not the best. Having skins on there must mean working harder no matter what. Yes Birch tar would be ideal. There is little chance I can make some and I have not found any yet. It is the challenges which make our projects the most interesting. Kevin
fiddler49		#16	[-]
Posts: 1740 (04/11/09 12:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Kevin, I've been a cross country skier since 69. Before glass composite skis became the norm, all cross country skis were made of laminated wood like hickory and ash. Even these well made laminated skis would brake rather easily, so most skiers carried a repair tip that slid over the broken tip so you could get back home. The Wood bottoms of these skis were treated with pine tar and applied hot with a torch. The pine tar would hold on to the different cross country ski waxes much better than just bare wood. The wax grips the snow so you have some kick plus glide. I'm sure you can still buy pine tar at REI or any good cross country ski store. It smells really nice when you're applying it hot. Artificial skins or climbing skins are still sold to mountaineers and back country telemark skiers. They used to use seal skins because it slides easily forward but grabs the snow well when you kick back. Skins on skis make them long skinny snow shoes but much faster. You can get a similar effect by wrapping cord around skis tip to tail for climbing. We sometimes would put on our climbing skins coming down steep icy snow slopes with heavy packs to stay in control. The different ski wax companys [Swix and Rex ] use the same color coding for the different wax hardness. Depending on how cold the snow was, I could rub blue or purple tip to tails and climb up very steep slopes up thousands of feet without using skins. Then I would scrape off the sticky wax and ski down threw the powder. cheers fiddler49
Quest for fire		#17	[-]
Posts: 1905 (04/11/09 3:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Excellent. Interesting about the cord wraps. I almost cannot wait for Winter. yeah right.

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What wood will do for cross country skis?

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