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 boybowyer |
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Posts: 543 (03/23/09 4:51 AM) |
I'm with Manny, I totally diggin' the ski pole bow.
I didn't know if anyone out there has done this with their bows in order to make a bow double as a walking stick? I've been thinking about that one for a while. Mark |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 128 (03/23/09 2:28 PM) |
I understand I have to plan a trip to Finland some day
 Simo, do you think it would be possible for a norwegian to have a look at some of the bows from the
storing place? Would it be a manageable task? - or perhaps you have some documentation from your examination of them?
Pretty cool that little pine-bow there, Fundin! I bought that book after reading a reference to that self-compression-pine bow. Interesting stuff, although I bet it was part of a fading tradition. I've cut a spruce with compression-wood, and it seems to have the same consistency as the pine compressionwood. Looking forwart to trying it in a bow. It should work fine. |
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anglobow |
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Posts: 246 (03/23/09 7:51 PM) |
I guess I'll have to give the old spruce a little trimming.
"Sing as you raise your bow. Shoot straighter than before." -Robert Plant
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1899 (03/24/09 1:25 AM) |
Both the Saami and the bowyer making that little pine bow said thet they need fish fat, the bowyer said it was almost like magic, you can read it firsthand in
swedish at www.primitivabagar.se
we need to try the fish fat and see what happens to wood, maybe its just misture... |
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Juri |
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Posts: 454 (03/24/09 5:12 PM) |
Fish fat?
Is fish oil ok? I may have a few capsules somewhere. |
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brachta |
NEAT! | ||
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Posts: 3 (03/24/09 7:32 PM) |
My family is Finn, and I'm only second generation American on my mom's side. Oddly, just today I was thinking about what sort of bows they would have
made- so seeing this has been amazing. thanks you all, and please do let us all know how the compression-pine experiment goes!
Robert in Reno |
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1901 (03/24/09 11:26 PM) |
Juri, maybe, I dont know, this area needs a lot of further exploration
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 697 (03/25/09 1:13 AM) |
The Örbyhus bow wood identification is sketchy at best. Remember that contemporary sources state the Vibby bow as juniper and the Jokkmokk bow as birch, while
both are in reality compression pine. How one can misidentify a strongly ring-porous-like conifer as a diffuse-porous hardwood is beyond me. At any rate,
I'd bet my money the Örbyhus bow is compression pine backed with birch (I also suspect the Novgorod bow is CP, not juniper), until modern analysis is done,
that is. The only reliable wood identification method is microscopic analysis done by a microscopic wood identification expert. This was rarely if ever done in
the old days. No-one, no matter how hard-core, can reliably ID the species of a 300-year-old piece of wood by visual surface inspection alone.
Compression pine (and larch) selfbows were widely used alongside backed ones. Sirelius states such bows among the Khanty, and the traditional Saami boy's bow was such, too. Compression pine is extremely bendy, such as a half-inch-thick, 48" slat will bend a lot with a little push. A flat back, not too dry, can take the tension, too. But catastrophic, sudden failures are quite possible, too, IME. Present knowledge is that compression spruce is much more brash than (quite brash already) CP. I'd keep looking for pine, unless you have a ready source of CS at hand. Off to soak my selfie slat with seal oil.... Tuukka
Last Edited By: sumpitan
03/25/09 1:38 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 698 (03/25/09 1:47 AM) |
Fundin wrote:But compression pine really has nothing to do with pine, as far as material properties go. S.G. in the .55...70 range, for starters, compared to an average of .42 for Pinus sylvestris. Tuukka |
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1902 (03/25/09 2:10 AM) |
I know, but its still amaizing that the compression properties makes the "trashy" pine equal osage, yew and other "supreme" woods.
Bows from compression spruce are still in oral tradition memory among swedsh saami, They were made from large vertical branches, without knowledge my first bow was such a bow, 40#@28" 72"ntn |
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 699 (03/25/09 2:43 AM) |
Henrik,
You mean horizontal branches, right? Spruce bough wood is a different beast from compression wood, although the former contains the latter in varying amounts. Spruce-branch (average 540 kg/m3) bows are among the oldest bows in the world (Vis I in North-Western Russia) and also the "other" traditional bow material of Finn boys alongside juniper. Spruce boughs make a fine bow, as long as the back holds together (a common theme with conifer bows). Tuukka |
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1903 (03/25/09 4:14 AM) |
Yes, horisontal branches, the large ones I cut last year contains almost 3cm of compression wood in the thin end. I also have a quite large piece of spruce
compression wood from a leaning stem.
Anyone ever tried yew compression or bough wood, from the large yew trees on Gotland, it should be possible to trim a horizontal branch wich should contain compression wood. |
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Jaro |
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Posts: 257 (03/25/09 9:37 AM) |
I have two rather big horizontal branches from yew tree. Not much heartwood in them though, but they are pretty bent upwards as they grew on the tree.
Jaro |
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Fundin |
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Posts: 1904 (03/25/09 9:55 AM) |
Jaro, it will be interesting to see how they perform as bows. If there is compression wood in the sapwood, it might be very strong
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Jaro |
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Posts: 258 (03/25/09 11:03 AM) |
Huh that is good to know. These were cut in the autumn.
Im still thinking about that russian bow, I might give it a shot. Jaro |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 129 (03/25/09 3:02 PM) |
Sumpitan: Agree about the uncertain wood identification. It's not that hard to imagine why though, as the compression wood really doesn't look like
regular wood. Items made from compression wood alone isn't that common either. Uffe Strucke did a proper analysis for me on the norwegian bows. Most of the
tiny test-samples did have signs of compression wood.
Jaro: It seems that the stretched side of a log with compression wood is good firewood. I haven't tried how strong it is in tension, but it definitely feels like the tree focuses it's magic on the compression-side and forgets about the other side. It seems brittle and overly light. Here's a spruce I cut last fall, by the way. It was too heavy to carry, so I had to axe away half of it first. 
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Simo Hankaniemi |
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Posts: 285 (03/25/09 5:23 PM) |
Kviljo wrote:I think it´s possible to arrange a visit to the Orimattila store rooms. I have been there five times and they have been always happy to serve. But they want to know beforehand the collection numbers of the artifacts, so they are able to get the items ready. And they are usually making new exhibitions etc. so these preparations should be made many weeks before the visit. Please, inform me in good time before you want to come, so I´ll do the homework (simo.hankaniemi"at"nettikirje.fi). I have some photos of the bows and I´ll put them here, when I´ll find them. My library is a terrible mess, so it might take some time, don´t expect them very soon. I have examined those bows like a novice, without well documenting them. They are surely worth making good notes and measurements etc. I´m a little ashamed to admit I was more interested in the American bows in the collection and a friend of mine spent much more time with the Siberian material. He had plans to duplicate some of the bows, but has not yet done so. |
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 700 (03/25/09 11:31 PM) |
Conifers compensate the pull of gravity by forming compression wood on the underside of a leaning trunk. But the normal-looking, lightweight, soft wood on the
tension side of a compression trunk is stronger in tension than normal wood, too. (Given normal spruce's lousy strength properties, this isn't
necessarily saying much).
Tuukka |
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Kviljo |
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Posts: 131 (03/26/09 1:04 AM) |
Nice, Simo! I'll be looking very much forward to the photos! - and make a sound in good time if I'm able to make the trip.
Tuukka, how do you know it is stronger in tension? |
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sumpitan |
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Posts: 701 (03/26/09 1:08 AM) |
Pertinent studies of the mechanical properties of wood. Not pulling info out of my ..s
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