show me what you would use to shoot a water buffulo with

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AntlerandStone		#21	[-]
Posts: 11 (03/12/09 4:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If it were me, and I'm just stating an opinion here, I would have to do the tests on my own before going on a 'live' hunt. I would take everyone's suggestions into account, but I wouldn't trust my life to someone's opinion. Killing a water buffalo with primitive tools can be done, but be sure you're confident before going to 'stare' one down in real life. I'd suggest buying a side of beef to practice on. Frozen would be preferred. Also, take into consideration what you would do if/when the buffalo charges you after the first shot. I've seen these animals take two hits from a .416 Rigby and still come charging. I'd hate to think all I had was a few arrows to save me. I'm not a "doubting Thomas", it can be done. I'm just saying to be prepared.
ozybowbender		#22	[-]
Posts: 10 (03/12/09 7:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i have failed to tell everyone that i would do a lot of testing on dead buffulo 1st.
sandhillcowboy1		#23	[-]
Posts: 1224 (03/12/09 2:09 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A friend and I have done some penetration tests with atlatl thrown agate basin style point with excellent results on buffalo......just deceased ones. One hit a rib and still penetrated to a lethal depth. The point is still good after 4 penetrations. The old Paleo boys and later archery guys may have actually went in back of the rib cage. Most of your damage to a critter from a stone point will be mainly done by puncturing something important as opposed to cutting arteries and veins along the way, imo. I have taken a turkey with a stone tipped arrow shot from a double curve sinew backed short plains bow with sinew string. I did have one shot glance from a wing. My second shot was face on and penetrated well. The points from some of the old Pawnee sites in Nebraska are an inch or less in length, triangular, no notches and super thin and made of tough material.....a lot of them are from the Permian formation cherts. I have gotten to examine some originals from an initial coalescent Middle Missouri site, roughly 1000 yrs old, and their points were about the size of the Pawnee sites, although most had notches there. They were utilizing buffalo extensively at both sites. A thin, small point made of durable material would be my choice if going after buffalo, which I am guessing would be similar to the water buffalo. The thicker and wider a point is the more resistance it has. Ozzy, what part of the country are you in? I have a daughter that lives up on the Gold Coast. We were over last Sep, beautiful country over there. Got to see some of the Aborigine points at a museum in Adelaide, some of those Kimberleys are exquisite and look deadly as well. Rick Rick
ozybowbender		#24	[-]
Posts: 11 (03/12/09 4:22 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	sandhillcowboy- i'm currently in canada but i'm going back soon. i think your talking about bison? the ribs of a buffulo are upto 3/4" thick and they overlap. there is no shooting between the ribs. i'm from stanthorpe, which is about 300km inland from the gold coast.
lithicchipper		#25	[-]
Posts: 7 (03/12/09 5:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I believe the wild Asian Water Buffalo is on the endangered species list. The African Buffalo (Cape Buffalo) is still hunted. If you are set on going after the African Beast, also known as the black death, I'd recommend leaving the bow at home and securing a 458 Holland. Good luck!
daddio		#26	[-]
Posts: 55 (03/12/09 6:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is a calf creek style point in a bison skull ... Any doubts about penetration on rib bones with primitive gear? This guy must have had a hell of a bow though, Anyway good luck on your hunt and bring a sidearm...a BIG one. Rich
Riverman		#27	[-]
Posts: 175 (03/12/09 6:22 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Havn't tried hunting with stone, but have done some penetration testing. I have shot Texas (heated and non heated), burlington (heated) and obsidian all but one corner notched (other one stemmed like Rymeswithwhats) all with a 52# recurve at about 50 feet into a 1" thick very dry piece of walnut hardwood. All points were 1" - 2" Man, I could not believe the damage! ALL of them went clean through, 75% broke at the haft after penetrating (I think arrow weight bent it and snapped em). The obsidian and raw texas went clean through against the grain of wood. The only thing I noted that slowed these points down at all is where the arrow shaft is sticking out a bit from the point. I noted circular damage on the wood from the arrow shaft itself. I would suggest for best penetration a point with a fluted base so as arrow shaft/dart shaft is flush with the point. Otherwise stone is mighty deadly! I was amazed, as I figured most of the points would only have minor penetration into hardwood and figured some would just blow up on impact. I have shot the one Texas point a dozen times, only damage is the very tip broke off maybe 3rd or 4th shot, oddly enough leaving a brand new tip, I have not even had to resharpen it. -Mike
ozybowbender		#28	[-]
Posts: 12 (03/12/09 6:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thanks riverman, that's encouraging. lithicchipper- there are plenty of asiatic buffulo in the northern territory of australia. that's where everyone hunts them.
lithicchipper		#29	[-]
Posts: 8 (03/12/09 6:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I stand corrected. I was probably talking out of turn anyway. I had read something about the Asian species (Bubalus bubalis ) being on the endangered list but it evidently is in other countries. Anyway good luck on your hunt.
sandhillcowboy1		#30	[-]
Posts: 1225 (03/12/09 8:30 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	sandhillcowboy- i'm currently in canada but i'm going back soon. i think your talking about bison? the ribs of a buffulo are upto 3/4" thick and they overlap. there is no shooting between the ribs. i'm from stanthorpe, which is about 300km inland from the gold coast. Ozy, yea I am referring to "bison", everyone here calls them buffalo. Their ribs actually run about 3/4 in thick and are fairly close together and their hide is thick. I know a guy who took a buff in Oz with traditional archery gear and he used a rib cage shot. I assumed you were probably going to use a primitive bow of some type. If you used a modern bow with more fps you may have more chance of shatter with a stone point if it hits bone. I have a somewhat unique perspective on these in that we outfit bison hunts, and I have seen them taken with everything from the big Rigbys to self made wooden arrows. Two shots on a bull from the Rigbys didn't make a bull flinch one time;) I just had a client who has the archery world record for free ranging buffalo and also host of an outdoor tv show. He filmed a hunt here a few weeks ago and has taken quite a few bison. His favorite placement is a quartering away shot angled into the boiler maker region, put down a big bull very quickly with that shot, thus my earlier reference to that as being a possible placement. I recently had 2 clients who have hunted Africa twice for Cape Buffalo and said they dropped quicker than the bison here do:) A friend has been trying to talk me into shooting a buff over in Oz (archery) for a few years, so I have been very interested in this thread. Rick
daddio		#31	[-]
Posts: 56 (03/13/09 4:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Oh , Asiatic buffalo...
sandhillcowboy1		#32	[-]
Posts: 1226 (03/13/09 8:58 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That Calf Creek in the skull may have been a spear or atlatl point also. Rick
daddio		#33	[-]
Posts: 58 (03/13/09 9:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You're absolutely right. Judging by the relative size (assuming also that this skull is from an adult bison) this was more likely a spear or dart point. Rich
Mahto Sapa Numpa		#34	[-]
Posts: 876 (03/14/09 7:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ozy, Tell your doubters that people hunted with stone points for thousands of years before going to metal and they didn't even have wheel bows! I have yet to connect with my stone points on a big game animal but I have talked to several who have, and they had taken elk with no breakage. The other thing you have to think about is that when the stone breaks it creates another very sharp edge. I read a series of penetration test published in an archery magazine the 1950's or so, showing that the best penetration was by 2 blade points with a 3 to 1 ratio of length to width. That supports a primitive point over a modern razor blade point. I Have Used Obsidian and basalt, Basalt is really tough and tough to make matching points out of. I would not expect it to break hitting bone. Also Living bone is much softer than bone exposed to the air and dried out. I have a Bear Razorhead I shot a deer with in the 1970's that penetrates a vertebrae completely severing the spinal cord. Now I am not suggesting aiming for a bone, it just demonstrates the softness of living bone. I think your biggest concern may be the aggressiveness of the animal. even with a modern bow and metal points a water buffalo may have enough time to charge you. I say plan your shot well and take out both lungs. they can't go far without air! Good luck and by all means we need pictures! Kirby When the white man came to America, it was a mans job to hunt and fish. . . . . . And we thought we could improve on that?
crabbow		#35	[-]
Posts: 33 (03/14/09 8:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Shot placement is the key in my opinion as well as concealment,dad had shot a gaur which believe it or not is even bigger than he waterbufallow with a 7.62 nato as well as a rogue tusker with the sam cartridge,and by god do they charge.

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show me what you would use to shoot a water buffulo with

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