Finnish archery

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Martti Kujansuu) — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:53:24 GMT

Just took these photos at the Finnish National Museum at Helsinki. This so called Stone Age "bow part" was found from Raiku village at Kangasala in 1936. Dimensions are circa 72 x 3 cm and it's made out of juniper. The arrows are replicas.

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Kviljo) — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:36:22 GMT

Great stuff Martti! Shefferus has quite a few interesting quotes about these bows.

Quest: the "basket" stays on while shooting. It is also tillered so that the lower limb is a bit stiffer than the upper, so that it will take the stresses from beeing used as a ski-stave. It's made from the measurements from the original, so I'm quite sure the original was made with the same intention. It still shoots quite well, although far from as good as any other regular bow.

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Martti Kujansuu) — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:27:45 GMT

As for the Saami bows. The History of Laplad Wherein Are fhewed the Originals, Manners, Habits, Marriages, Conjurations, &c. of that People. Written By John Scheffer, Profellor of Law and Rhetoric at Upfal in Sweden. At the Theater in Oxford M. DC. LXXIV [1674].
http://www.kb.se/F1700/Lapland/Lapland.htm

"Chap. XX
Of the Laplanders Weapons and inftruments of Hunting
[...]
...

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Quest for fire) — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:51:23 GMT

As far as I know the weight spreader/spike on
the bottom of the bow is called a basket.

Basket is such a generic term that
it may just be slang.

My question is,
does it come off to shoot?
To me it would just about have to as
the basket "nock" would be so much
slower than the top nock.
Either that or tiller is very
different on a bow such as that.

Another thing that comes to mind is
the very different load a...

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Kviljo) — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:35:51 GMT

I didn't think you were pulling it out of you ass, hehe. It was a question from a scientist to a scientist Done any bending-tests with numbers, or is it a hunch from making bows from such wood?

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (sumpitan) — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:08:28 GMT

Pertinent studies of the mechanical properties of wood. Not pulling info out of my ..s

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Kviljo) — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:04:30 GMT

Nice, Simo! I'll be looking very much forward to the photos! - and make a sound in good time if I'm able to make the trip.

Tuukka, how do you know it is stronger in tension?

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (sumpitan) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:31:04 GMT

Conifers compensate the pull of gravity by forming compression wood on the underside of a leaning trunk. But the normal-looking, lightweight, soft wood on the tension side of a compression trunk is stronger in tension than normal wood, too. (Given normal spruce's lousy strength properties, this isn't necessarily saying much).

Tuukka

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Simo Hankaniemi) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:23:21 GMT

Kviljo wrote:
I understand I have to plan a trip to Finland some day Simo, do you think it would be possible for a norwegian to have a look at some of the bows from the storing place? Would it be a manageable task? - or perhaps you have some documentation from your examination of them?

I think it´s possible to arrange a visit to...

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Kviljo) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:02:36 GMT

Sumpitan: Agree about the uncertain wood identification. It's not that hard to imagine why though, as the compression wood really doesn't look like regular wood. Items made from compression wood alone isn't that common either. Uffe Strucke did a proper analysis for me on the norwegian bows. Most of the tiny test-samples did have signs of compression wood.

Jaro: It seems that the stretched side of a log with compression wood is good firewood. I haven't tried how...

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Jaro) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:03:56 GMT

Huh that is good to know. These were cut in the autumn.

Im still thinking about that russian bow, I might give it a shot.

Jaro

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Fundin) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:55:51 GMT

Jaro, it will be interesting to see how they perform as bows. If there is compression wood in the sapwood, it might be very strong

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Jaro) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:37:54 GMT

I have two rather big horizontal branches from yew tree. Not much heartwood in them though, but they are pretty bent upwards as they grew on the tree.

Jaro

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Fundin) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:14:03 GMT

Yes, horisontal branches, the large ones I cut last year contains almost 3cm of compression wood in the thin end. I also have a quite large piece of spruce compression wood from a leaning stem.

Anyone ever tried yew compression or bough wood, from the large yew trees on Gotland, it should be possible to trim a horizontal branch wich should contain compression wood.

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (sumpitan) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:43:17 GMT

Henrik,

You mean horizontal branches, right? Spruce bough wood is a different beast from compression wood, although the former contains the latter in varying amounts. Spruce-branch (average 540 kg/m3) bows are among the oldest bows in the world (Vis I in North-Western Russia) and also the "other" traditional bow material of Finn boys alongside juniper. Spruce boughs make a fine bow, as long as the back holds together (a common theme with conifer bows).

Tuukka

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Fundin) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:10:34 GMT

I know, but its still amaizing that the compression properties makes the "trashy" pine equal osage, yew and other "supreme" woods.

Bows from compression spruce are still in oral tradition memory among swedsh saami, They were made from large vertical branches, without knowledge my first bow was such a bow, 40#@28" 72"ntn

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (sumpitan) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:47:49 GMT

Fundin wrote:
Considering this bow is ONLY pine, its rather amazing.

But compression pine really has nothing to do with pine, as far as material properties go. S.G. in the .55...70 range, for starters, compared to an average of .42 for Pinus sylvestris.

Tuukka

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (sumpitan) — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:13:16 GMT

The Örbyhus bow wood identification is sketchy at best. Remember that contemporary sources state the Vibby bow as juniper and the Jokkmokk bow as birch, while both are in reality compression pine. How one can misidentify a strongly ring-porous-like conifer as a diffuse-porous hardwood is beyond me. At any rate, I'd bet my money the Örbyhus bow is compression pine backed with birch (I also suspect the Novgorod bow is CP, not juniper), until modern analysis is done, that is. The only...

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (Fundin) — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:26:22 GMT

Juri, maybe, I dont know, this area needs a lot of further exploration

Re: Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (brachta) — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:32:44 GMT

My family is Finn, and I'm only second generation American on my mom's side. Oddly, just today I was thinking about what sort of bows they would have made- so seeing this has been amazing. thanks you all, and please do let us all know how the compression-pine experiment goes!

Robert in Reno

Finnish archery

feeds@yuku.com (uscg4good) — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:47:47 GMT

Can someone point me to some resources to find information on Finnish archery and the bows used by the Finns. I found a language relation between Finnish and Magyar people, Magyar bows, but that's about it. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Leo